tag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:/help/discussions/scrivener-3-beta/898-user-manual-feedbackLiterature and Latte: Discussion 2018-10-18T21:53:08Ztag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-09-29T10:54:25Z2017-09-29T10:55:02ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Screenwriting section:</p>
<p>Please don't recommend people to Celtx. The app is having serious trouble as they try to monetize what used to be a free, open-source app. It just keeps getting worse.</p>
<p>In addition to Final Draft, here are some suggestions that will cause Scrivener Users less suffering:</p>
<p>Best-selling (after Final Draft): Movie Magic Screenwriter</p>
<p>Best bang for the buck: FadeIn Pro</p>
<p>Good free app: WriterDuet</p>
<p>HTH</p></div>popcornflixtag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-09-29T11:26:23Z2017-09-29T11:26:23ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Thanks for the tips, that's one area of software I'm not too familiar<br>
with---back in the day CeltX was a good free alternative, sad to hear<br>
that's no longer the case. What about Highland? They seem to be<br>
mentioned positively now and then--same arena as Montage, kind of niche?<br>
Fade In is definitely one I was trying to recall and couldn't think of;<br>
thanks.</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-09-29T16:19:08Z2017-09-29T16:19:08ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Highland is well-designed, but it's a Fountain-only app, which makes it a small niche in an already niche market. I have a copy just to use its PDF-to-FDX converter.</p>
<p>Montage isn't really in the field. They keep lowering the price, which can't be a good sign.</p>
<p>If your intent was to offer a good, free alternative to FD, I'd suggest WriterDuet.</p></div>popcornflixtag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-09-29T21:00:51Z2017-09-29T21:00:51ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>An amazing piece of work, which even in this unfinished state looks already very well! And it would look even better, if the headings and page numbers on even pages were on the left side of the page.</p></div>Paul van Hecktag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-09-29T23:48:49Z2017-09-29T23:48:49ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>On scriptwriting apps:</p>
<p>Montage is dead. Montage 2 has been coming real soon any day now for a gazillion years. Last update was over six years ago.</p>
<p>FD 10 is sort of okay though the twazzocky stuff like Beat Board and Story Map are dumb. The former is like Scapple without being able to do anything, and the other is a sort of disjointed timeline.</p>
<p>Movie Magic Screenwriter is actually better now I'd say.</p>
<p>Highland is a pure and lovable Fountain editor. Fountain is a screenwriters' subset of Markdown and very very quick and agile. Ditto Slugline and the rather neat Logline. Everything in plaintext.</p>
<p>Fade In Pro is smashing and fast and elegant and fine value. It works on the FD/MMSW model of making you write "in formatting" (you think about layout a lot; these apps help you get layout right.)</p>
<p>I don't know whether any of these are apposite.</p>
<p>Gazes stupidly into space.</p>
<p>BLOKE<br>
Cheer up.</p>
<p>ME<br>
Bugger off. I'm just giving an example of how you write in Fountain.</p>
<p>BLOKE<br>
How come you know about all these apps?</p>
<p>ME<br>
(Mumbling) I've got eight Swiss Army Knives, too.</p>
<p>GENTLE READERS<br>
Well you've just wasted 90 seconds of our lives which will never come again.</p>
<p>ME<br>
It's still Yom Kippur. I'll atone.</p>
<p>GENTLE READERS<br>
Be sure you do, gobbogue, or you'll be sorry.</p></div>Michael Bywatertag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-09-30T18:36:04Z2017-09-30T18:36:04ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>According to the first page of the manual, posting about errors in sections marked with red "This Section is Under Construction" banners is welcome, but is it useful? Should we skip those sections with regards to proofreading?</p></div>rdaletag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-09-30T20:25:54Z2017-09-30T20:25:54ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Thanks Paul! I did consider recto/verso treatment. It seemed somewhat<br>
without use in a digital PDF, even though I did that the last time. But<br>
I suppose it does also offer the possibility of displaying additional<br>
information in the header---and I guess if one does double-side print<br>
the thing it would look nicer. I'll take a look at it again.</p>
<p>Michael: thanks for the additional notes. I guess I'll leave the Montage<br>
mention in for the recommended formats table, for those few that still<br>
use it, but I'll take out the other references. I'll give Highland a<br>
mention in the Fountain parts.</p>
<p>Watch out carrying all of o'those knives in your pocket at once!</p>
<p>rdale: Good point. If you spot a problem in those sections let me<br>
know---the main idea in putting those there is to warn of missing<br>
content, so you might see headings without any text, sentences that<br>
suddenly</p>
<p>I just finished the Format menu this afternoon. I'll try to post that<br>
when I get back home tomorrow night (been rounding out the week in<br>
Scotland after a writing conference). That menu is a monster---3,200<br>
words all by itself. One less red banner though!</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-01T18:20:54Z2017-10-02T07:35:18ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Hoping PDF won't be the only final format.</p>
<p>Ebook, please.</p></div>Marcustag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-02T08:48:38Z2017-10-02T08:48:38ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>It won't be, but additional formats will be post-launch.</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-02T19:03:15Z2017-10-02T19:03:15ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>"I just finished the Format menu this afternoon. I'll try to post that when I get back home tomorrow night"</p>
<p>Post it where? I assumed the only place to get at it was via the Help menu, and so updates would only show up when new betas were released. If updated versions are posted elsewhere, I'd like to check against that version before submitting feedback.</p></div>rdaletag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-02T22:08:45Z2017-10-02T22:08:45ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>I'll post download links here in this thread in between beta builds.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.literatureandlatte.com/dlbeta/scrivener-manual-2.9.5-beta-02.pdf">Rev. 1.9.5 beta-02</a></p>
<p>I forgot to mention before: sidebar PDF reader navigation will be slightly off on account of how I'm "cheating" the cover page in at the moment. Internal navigation should be fine though.</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-03T23:07:59Z2017-10-03T23:07:59ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Er... just a heads-up that in French vernacular “recto-verso” has a double meaning, referring to a situation where the gentleman loves the lady very much and the lady also like the gentleman’s friend very much and so they decide that if the lady... well you can see what I mean.</p>
<p>:-))</p></div>Michael Bywatertag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-04T08:29:22Z2017-10-04T08:29:22ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Eh, Michael ... nudge, nudge, say no more ...</p></div>matsgztag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-04T08:34:10Z2017-10-04T08:34:10ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Well, Michael, it's a bit convoluted, but I think I see what you're getting at.</p>
<p>The gentleman's on the Windows version, his friend is on a Mac, and iOS is the lady who joins them in the middle?</p>
<p>It does sound very French...</p></div>brooktertag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-04T09:49:53Z2017-10-04T09:49:53ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>If things keep going the way they are, there will be an android in the mix.</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-19T22:31:40Z2017-10-19T22:32:33ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>This isn't so much a mistake as it is a difference between the menus and the manual.</p>
<p>Whenever you instruct the reader on how to invoke text zooming/magnification with the keyboard, you use the a different notation than is found in the menu, which could be confusing, and doesn't convey the functionality of the shortcut in an intuitive notation.</p>
<p>Example: In section "13.7.2 Zooming Inspector Notes", you instruct the user to use the shortcuts "CMD-SHIFT ," and "CMD-SHIFT .". In the menus, it's "CMD <" and "CMD >". The less-than and greater than symbols imply "decrease" and "increase" respectively, whereas comma and period do not, so in my opinion, that's the preferable notation. Also, it's inconsistent with what's found in the menus.</p></div>rdaletag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-19T23:19:57Z2017-10-19T23:19:57ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Good catch, it should indeed be Cmd < and Cmd >.</p></div>keithtag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-20T12:48:13Z2017-10-20T12:48:13ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Is the shortcut literally the "<" symbol plus Cmd, no matter how that symbol is generated (even if doesn't need the Shift key to be generated by the keyboard)? There are a few shortcuts marked using the base key at the moment, that would need to be fixed if it's the shifted symbol that matters, but it's a bit confusing since they are inconsistently referred to:</p>
<ul>
<li><code>Insert/Comment ⇧⌘*</code> (Not <code>⌘*</code> and not <code>⇧⌘8</code>, but <code>⇧*</code> whatever that means.)</li>
<li><code>View/Editor Layout ⌘"</code> (Not <code>⇧⌘"</code> or <code>⇧⌘'</code>.)</li>
<li>Meanwhile when you create a custom shortcut, Apple notates it literally. Instead of confusing <code>⇧*</code> type stuff, the shortcut in the SysPrefs panel and the menus would be <code>⇧⌘8</code>.</li>
</ul>
<p>It's all easy enough to fix, I've just never been clear on what is best to record, especially where it comes to keyboards that generate different symbols from base keys (like ⇧3=# vs ⇧3=£).</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-20T15:19:30Z2017-10-20T15:19:30ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>I don't know the answer to that exactly, as I'm not sure how I can generate a < or > any other way on my keyboard, but I would say that if it appears that way in the menus it should probably appear that way in the documentation. When I set a shortcut like this in Interface Builder, it first shows up as Shift-Cmd-. and IB then offers an "Alternates" menu that allows me to choose Cmd > instead. So I would assume that is the proper shortcut.</p>
<p>I don't know why Apple's menus want to show "Shift-Cmd-<em>" instead of "Shift-Cmd-8" - I have no control over that, that's just Apple's bizarreness. I can choose to show Cmd-</em> instead but I like the consistency with annotations having the Shift-Cmd shown for both.</p>
<p>View/Editor Layout also uses consistency with those items around - sort of. It was just the default way of displaying them.</p>
<p>For the documentation, though, I would just show the shortcuts in the manual how they appear in the menu. This isn't a high priority, though, so can of course wait for a .1 version of the manual if necessary.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p></div>keithtag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-20T16:18:59Z2017-10-20T16:18:59ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Oh yes, I figured it was all down to Apple weirdness, but that weirdness is one reason for why I had taken to referring to them by the base key rather than the shifted symbol. I found another inconsistency: <code>Documents/Snapshots/Take Snapshot with Title ⇧⌘5</code>. Because I guess ⇧⌘* is okay but not ⇧⌘%.</p>
<p>On the comment of how "<" is generated by the keyboard, I was thinking of other regional layouts that may not have that symbol shifted in the first place. I seem to recall with this one specifically we had some localisation issues with it in the past.</p>
<p>But that aside, this is very easy to fix. Each command in the software is listed in the outline, and those with shortcuts have them listed in a custom metadata field for holding that information:</p>
<p><img src="http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum_images/17293708-scriv3beta-shortcut_fix.png" alt=""></p>
<p>The entire rest of the user manual refers to zooming by linking <code><$custom:shortcut></code> to the menu appendix binder item, which gets replaced in compile to either :MacShortcut or :WinShortcut accordingly.</p>
<p>So by running a RegEx "MacShortcut" project search for <code>Shift-.*(?:\W|\d)$</code> I can find all shortcuts that start with Shift and end with anything other than an alphanumeric, or that end in a digit. Turns out that, at least as documented, Scrivener has 12 such shortcuts that are shifted and noted that way, and fixing all of that took five minutes.</p>
<p>This is why Scrivener rocks. :)</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-21T14:02:01Z2017-10-21T14:02:03ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>Searching the PDF doesn't work in all sections. Searching for "bold", for example, returns nothing, although the word exists in the file.</p></div>Kevintag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-23T11:55:36Z2017-10-23T11:55:36ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>That's good to note. It's a side-effect of the quick workaround I used to insert the cover page---by pasting a PDF page into the compiled PDF using Preview. That won't be a problem in production. In the PDF I have without a cover page I can search for any term.</p></div>Ioatag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-10-24T16:44:21Z2017-10-24T16:44:21ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>I've had an idea floating around in my brain-pan, which was to create a discussion thread that lists all the chapters, sections, and sub-sections (with titles in case new sections are added and cause re-numbering) in the first post. Then I would suggest that others volunteer to read through a sub-section, report issues found in THIS thread,and then post in that other thread that they've done a read-through. The top-level post would then be updated with the username of the person who had proofread that sub-section. With at least two people looking at each subsection, and maintaining that top-level thread post, we could cover everything quickly without neglecting any part of the document.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I just don't have the energy and focus to implement that idea and monitor the thread. Even if I did <em>feel</em> up to it, my efforts at bug hunting have been slap-dash at best for months, and there's no reason for me to believe I'd be an effective herder of writer-cats.</p>
<p>The manual is huge, and I'm in awe of Ioa's ability to put it together and organize all that information for 3 (and potentially more) platforms. That effort deserves a good looking over by us beta-testers, and I'll be glad to contribute to that effort if anyone wants to take the idea and run with it.</p></div>rdaletag:scrivener.tenderapp.com,2011-11-17:Comment/435984372017-11-02T09:16:04Z2017-11-02T09:16:04ZUser Manual Feedback<div><p>@brookter</p>
<p>"Well, Michael, it's a bit convoluted, but I think I see what you're getting at."</p>
<p>Ah. But if you could see what I was getting at you wouldn't be able to see what you were getting at. It's the sort of horizontal version -- broadly horizontal, anyway -- of the Brexit nongotiations. With a similar outcome in that everyone's had quite enough of my smut, this is a serious beta-feedback page</p>
<p>sorry</p>
<p><em>creeps away</em></p></div>Michael Bywater